Link to purport by A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada

Transcript of Bhakti-Shastri class on this verse by Chaitanya

In next section it will be discussed that devotees should focus on remembering Krishna and not worry about various other method by which we can attain that Supreme destination

Chapter 8 – overview

Verses 1 & 2 are the questions than 3 & 4 are answers to the 6 questions 

1-4: Krishna answers Arjuna’s first 6 questions

5-8: Remembrance of Krishna at death –answer to 7th question

9-13: Remembrance by yoga-mishra bhakti

14-15-Remembrance by shuddha-bhakti

16-22: Remembrance by comparing natures of material and spiritual worlds (so we are attracted from material world when we think that material world is place of enjoyment for us but when we understand that material world is not place of enjoyment then we turn towards spiritual world )

23-28: Remembrance by bhakti-yoga is easier than by ashtanga yoga

So essentially the chapter talks about remembrance at the time of death so that we can attain the absolute truth so no doubt Srila Prabhupada titled the chapter as attaining the Supreme there are another title of this chapter as Akshar Brahma Yoga based on the first verse spoken by Sri Krishna Aksharam Paramam Brahmam.

23-28 is the concluding section which will be discussed now.

Bg 8.23

yatra kāle tv anāvṛttim
āvṛttiṁ caiva yoginaḥ
prayātā yānti taṁ kālaṁ
vakṣyāmi bharatarṣabha

Word for word: 

yatra — at which; kāle — time; tu — and; anāvṛttim — no return; āvṛttim — return; ca — also; eva — certainly;yoginaḥ — different kinds of mystics; prayātāḥ — having departed; yānti — attain; tam — that; kālam — time;vakṣyāmi — I shall describe; bharata–ṛṣabha — O best of the Bhāratas.

Translation: 

O best of the Bhāratas, I shall now explain to you the different times at which, passing away from this world, the yogī does or does not come back.

yatra kāle tv anāvṛttim, so what is the time at which anāvṛttim, one will not come back, āvṛttiṁ caiva yoginaḥ, and one will come back prayātā yānti taṁ kālaṁ, vakṣyāmi bharatarṣabha, So Arjuna I will explain to you the time at which if Yogi departs, yogi will return and the time at which yogi departs yogi will not return, I will explain this to you vakṣyāmi bharatarṣabha, 

Srila Prabhupada’s Purport: If the yogī is perfect he can select the time and situation for leaving this material world. But if he is not so expert his success depends on his accidentally passing away at a certain suitable time.

…. According to Ācārya Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, the Sanskrit word kāla used herein refers to the presiding deity of time….

So here we are going into foreign territory in the sense that what Sri Krishna will be discussing over here involves lot of preliminary Vedic knowledge which we are not familiar with our normal course of Krishna Consciousness Study. So this Krishna will talk about in next verses where He will talk about two Vedic paths Devayan and Pitriyan.

So these two paths will be discussed now but before we can discuss about the path of Yoga. For every path which a person follows there is a world view associated with it, for example when a person wants to be materialist there is a world view associated with materialism that may be Godless materialism or there may be a pious materialism, religious materialism or atheistic materialism there is a world view associated with that so if there is a Godless materialist there is a world view that there is no God there is no soul and this life is a competition the survival of fittest and we have to fight to enjoy in this world and whatever success we get in this world that is the only success and happiness we have when we die everything is finished this is a world view like that now in many ways a world view is like a map, a map helps us in some way to navigate the territory but if the map is wrong then we cannot navigate the territory properly if I am travelling in Mumbai and I have got map of Kolkata then no matter how much I try to follow the map I just cannot make any headway so first of all I have to have a correct map, but then even if the map is correct the map may not be appropriate for me what does it mean there is a difference between correct map and appropriate map if I want to find my way in city and for that I have got a map, if I got a map which is of geographically features like Plato, plans, rivers, mountains, what is the kind of soil that is there and if I am trying to find house of a friend using that map it will not be helpful, so that map is not incorrect that map is correct but it is not appropriate for me, so the map which we have, should not only be correct but should also be appropriate similarly in Vedic culture there are multiple correct maps which are given, but all are not appropriate for our spiritual advancement, in Kaliyuga by the practice of Bhakti Yoga in Krishna Consciousness, so the process of Yoga has a particular kind of map, what is that map that map involves various chakras and this is one particular way of looking at the body, now if we look from scientific perspective it talks about glands, circulation, nerves, blood and there is no concept of Chakra there, so these are different maps, to understand this concept of the map we have to understand that the focus when we look at a particular world view what we can know depends on what we know, that means if a car is giving strange noise while driving, an ordinary person may think why this car is giving noise it is irritating but a trained mechanic say O’ there is some problem in the carburetor or there are some other technical problem in some other part because of which it is giving the problem. So now because the mechanic already has certain knowledge because of that if there is further stimulus there is further information which comes up then he will be able to understand it better, so what is just an irritating sound for an ordinary driver is an indication to a mechanic to take corrective action so what we can know from a particular situation depends on what we know so in the modern scientific way of looking at the body the body is primarily seen as a bio-chemical system, it is an organism but it is basically a bio chemical system so essentially the whole functionality of the body is considered to be based on proper balance circulation and integration bio-chemicals, chemicals refers to the substances we study in chemistry and bio chemicals refers to substances that are studies in Biology, contribute to life, or living systems to be more precise, so it is a system of bio-chemicals, and all deceases are seen to be caused by some anatomical or physical functions so ontological refers to physical structure and physiology refers to internal functions. So when there is a fracture that is anatomical problem but when there is low blood pressure, anemia that is physiological problem, so the point is everything in body is seen from biochemical perspective, it could be structural problem but ultimately structural is also comprised of bio-chemical from different point but this is reductionist view of looking at the world and at the body, Ayurveda has a different way of looking at the body, Ayurveda see the body as Cougha, Vata and Pitta. So cougha is basically referred to as solid content in the body, Vata refers to the air content, and pita refers to the heat content, there will be correlation and in Ayurveda it is mentioned that if cougha, vata and pita are balanced then the body will function effectively, and if it is imbalanced then body cannot function properly, so now it is well known experienced fact that people do get cured by treatment from Ayvurveda also, and people get cured by treatment from allopath also, now of course some devotees will chose allopath some may choose ayvurveda. Srila Prabhupada preferred Ayvurveda but Srila Prabhupada was not fanatical about it Prabhupada was pragmatic you use whatever works, so the point is both are maps and both maps looks at the body in a particular way in a distinctive way and they try to solve the problem which are there in the body. So how we will reconcile these two maps, so it is same body but depending upon the framework which one is looking they will see the body differently. Now even the allopathic person will agree that there are some heat in the body, and when body temperature goes up it indicated fever and which means there are something wrong inside the body. So the concept of heat in the body as connected with health is accepted in allopath also  but the concept of the substance which generates the heat and the concept of jatharagni may not be well understood in allopathic but there can be correlation, now whatever organs that are talked about whether it is allopathic or Ayurveda the kidney has certain function, heart has certain function there are certain things which are similar but the way of looking things are different, so both works in their own ways and both focus on trying to take care of body, now Ayurveda certainly talks about material and physical balance but it also takes into consideration physiological and spiritual aspects not at the level of God and souls but if we study the original Ayurvedic scriptures, Ayurvedic book which are there they do talk about mental and spiritual aspect also, although that is not emphasized it is medical book but that is mentioned over there, just as Ayurvada offers one way of looking at the world because science is largely reductionist so even if Ayurveda offers medical benefits and it heels, although it is considered one of the alternative ways of treatment, still people are suspicious because we have been brought up in a particular world view, so we may not be able to appreciate Ayurveda easily, but just as Ayurveda works although it looking at different way of the body similarly there is another way of looking at the body which is some way connected to Ayurveda someway different, that is the yogic way of looking at the body it involves seeing the body in terms of its energy centers, so let us understand this, we will see that how even in science there are different ways of looking at the body, not in terms of allopathic but in broad understanding what the body is, so the point which was made here is there are different maps, so here we see same human body but depending on what is the focus the body will be seen differently (can ref picture in Bhagavad-Gita-Slides. PDF page number 248 title The Human Body). If one wanted to focus on nervous system they will focus on one map of the body called Nervous, if one wanted to focus in Cardiovascular aspect which is meant for respiratory aspect and heart related than we will focus on Cardiovascular related map, if someone wanted to lookup what are the internal organs then someone will look at Viscera map and similarly for limbs some one will focus on Lymphatic. If we look at each of these diagrams separately we may think that these are quite different, so they are different yet they are connected also, how they are connected? Because they are all talking about the same body ultimately, but at different time depending upon the need we will look at the body differently, so what we wanted to do in a particular territory will determines what kind of map are most appropriate for us. So now just there is a way for looking at the body depending upon the physical function similarly there is another way of looking at the body in terms of energy fields ref Page 249, Human Energy Fields, what do we mean by this energy fields first there is an ora of the person and then we can see some rays going out, in second diagram we see that energy fields are around that person. Let us understand it little bit more now, even according to modern science the whole universe is filled with vibrations and everything which we do is sets of vibrations say if I am speaking it is sound vibration, if I am just moving my hand that also creates vibration around me, just the movement of any object sets some vibrations anyway the whole system of telecommunication is based on electromagnetic vibrations, we call people by cell phone and such similar things happen because there are vibrations which travel around so just a person needs to have some understanding of physics to know electromagnetic vibrations / waves and to tap into them, utilize them similarly we need other aspects also what do we mean by other aspects? By other aspect means there are other ways of looking at the world and at the body also so when we talk about Vedic culture we broadly talks about the three modes of material nature, that is one way of analyzing specially the physiological characteristic of things modes don’t only have effect on physiological character of things they have wide range of effect on everything and we will discuss about the modes later when we will come to 14th chapter, but here we all know about the modes, broadly we know this behavior is goodness, this is passion and this is ignorance, whichever way it might be, but the important point in all cases is that we work primarily on the map that we are using, depending upon how I look at the world accordingly I function, so in the process of yoga the purpose is that one has to channelize one’s energy and what are these energies these are physical energies these are subtler energy not physical energies so there is some recent that is happening in mapping ora’s of people many time is Amar citra Katha or in movies if some saintly people are there, there are shown some light around them it is called hallo, or Ora it is like effulgence so if we have appropriate technology we will find that every person has an ora. What is this ora exactly? The ora refers to the kind of effect that person has, in the environment that one is around, sometimes we feel that when we go in presence of some very advance devotees than just by being in their presence we feel calm we feel spiritual by that sometimes it may happen even when we go to temple, outside it may be honking, crowd and pushing but as soon as we enter the temple atmosphere and suddenly we feel something different Oh it is so peaceful what is making this place peaceful like this? So what is that makes us peaceful like that, actually it is something which is very distinctive, even materialistic people when they go to temple they feel this, the vibration here are different they say, what is that which makes them peaceful like that? Actually it is the presence of spiritual vibrations it is presence of Krishna materialistic people who don’t have proper spiritual understanding sometimes they feel that this place is spiritual but they don’t thing this Deity is spiritual that the Deity presence is there. Actually the chanting of Hare Krishna the meditation done over there the prayers done over there all those things create vibrations which help in creating a spiritual settings. So the important point is to recognize that wherever we are there are vibrations around that so this vibration need not be physical vibrations which are studied in physics there can be subtler vibrations also. So the energy fields refer to this kind of vibration set off on a subtler level. Science doesn’t study everything that we know about there is much beyond the scope of science that is studied today. So this is another way of looking at the world and in the path of yoga it is understood that these energy fields can be maximized or minimized, for our benefit and for others benefit. 

So what is a siddhi actually? When a yogi gets some siddhi what exactly happens? When we get access to subtler or higher dimensions then we can do things which are not possible normally. 

Example in a room an ant if wanted to travel for right top corner to left bottom corner (diagonally opposite) it has to travel a long distance it has to come down and then move towards bottom corner but a mosquito can directly fly diagonally and can achieve the same result easily since it has been given that kind of access by the kind of body it possess. Similarly when there is access to higher dimensions then that which is not normally easily accessible becomes easily accessible. So even in science there is a concept called worm hole, what is this worm hole? In science fiction movies and science fiction novel there is scope of space travel, and travel to distant planets where there are other kinds of life forms, and going there and staying there, that kind of things fascinate people so when they are talking about such things so at that time how are these things done? What is the practical way by which these things are done? They are done by a concept called worm hole so the idea is that Einstein is proposed that space time is like a circle, so currently the space travel is limited by the upper limit of speed of light, so if someone will go by the speed of light then is some starts are thousands of light year away so what does it actually mean? It means that when we see star in sky and if it is thousand light years away that means we are not seeing the star as it is the light from star took thousand years to come here that means when we look at the sky we are not looking at present we are looking at past we are seeing the star as it was thousand year ago, and even we go there by speed of light we reach there after thousand years, and who knows the star might has exploded and might not be there only. So space travel in science fiction is upper limited by speed of light. So therefore the scientist thought of a concept called worm hole which means that if space time is like a sphere then normally one has to go from top of sphere travelling in the periphery, but if a worm has to go the worm can burry a hole and instead of going through circumference it just go right thorough the sphere in diagonal line, in a radial way from one end to other end through center, that is much shorter that is called worm hole. Right now of course the worm hole is entirely a concept, whether worm hole exists and whether space time is actually spherical, whether one can find the areas where worm holes are possible and whether one can travel through a worm hole are speculations right now we don’t know what it is but the point is through all these examples is that by access to some different kinds of reality our normal way of functioning can be changed things can be expedited. For example when there is Prapti siddhi, prapti siddhi means what happens, say if someone wants dates from Kabul the yogi will be sitting in the room he will stretches his hands and the dates will appear in his hands and he will give the dates. So now in many cases people who are doing this are just doing the magic the dates are hidden somewhere and they will mislead the people and show the dates so yes there are people who are magicians who do these things but along with magicians there are also other people who do it genuinely. They are capable of doing it so how do they do that, so yogis by the development of their subtler energies they can access subtler dimensions when they access subtler dimensions they can travel faster. Not only faster but they can take shortcuts which are not available in lower dimensions. One of Srila Prabhupada scientific disciple has talked about this in his several books and in BTG articles and explained these things pictorially, we will not cover the technicalities here because our focus is not vedic science our focus is BG here, certainly not yogic science but the important point here is when we have access to subtler dimensions things which are not possible by normal means are possible by those dimensions. Just like if one is working on a computer in computers there can be multiple level of users so some users they have access to basics say just data entry but an advance user can look at code also and not only data entry, and he can change the code if it is required. And some user may be a super user who is having access to everything so even in a simple machine we can make the system in such a way that depending on the level of authority and responsibility in Sanskrit this level of authority & responsibility is called Adhikar, so depending on one’s Adhikar one will be able to do things differently so therefore one will be able to get access to more things and will be able to do more things that way, so yogis are those who will tap there subtler powers by a certain process and when they do that they will be able to have some siddhis also. Now if we look at the Yoga Sutras carefully even in the yogic path the siddhis are considered to be distractions they are not the ultimate goals many people think that siddhis are spiritual but siddhis are not spiritual they are material, why? Because siddhis are focusing on material things. It is the ability to manipulate matter, so ability to manipulate matter are ultimately material, but in the chakra system there are subtler energy so first point which is made is that Chakra system are different ways of looking at the body, it is a different map, and in this map there are subtler energies when we tap those subtler energies then we can do things which are normally not possible because we get access to higher dimensions when we use word dimension it is not identical to the way we use them in science, but in science when we talk about sting? theory especially they talk about 11 dimensions, 17 dimensions and scientist themselves talk about higher dimensions but how those dimensions are conceived even scientist cannot explain properly but there is a concept of higher dimensions, so the vedic understanding of higher dimensions are not exactly similar but it is something which is in that direction, so basic understanding is when subtler energies are activated one has access to higher dimensions and one can do certain things at that time.

So coming back to chakras yoga talks about the chakras and scientists talk about various glands which are there so let us see a rough correlation between the two, 

Now each of these glands has certain hormones associated with it, what is explained here is not that out of these two systems one is scientific and other is not scientific, they can be correlated but because world views underlying them are different so there can be some differences also but both within their worldviews stand intellectual scrutiny  and there is possibility to access power just as when we study science so the doctors who has studied the physical body extensively they have power ordinary person doesn’t know why there is pain in my stomach and doctor knows and doctor may give some injection or does some surgery and the pain goes away so just as this knowledge gives us some understanding of the body which gives us power similarly the understanding of the chakras also  carries the kind of knowledge which gives power so this is correlation to metabolism, now after understanding this the basics of the yogic system, the purpose of understanding this is whole principle in yoga is focusing a lot on material, although the ultimate aim is spiritual bit the focus is quite a bit on material the regulating of breath seating in a particular asana and then trying to activate the chakras and the to get the prana to rise to the highest chakras, now in all this the focus on remembrance of Krishna becomes substantially lower and that is unfortunate, so if somebody can focus on remembering Krishna and by remembering Krishna one returns back to Krishna that is the best but if one doesn’t focus on Krishna then that can lead to problems. Because one relies on too much on one’s endeavor and if one’s endeavor don’t work out properly then one will not be successful. So now with this understanding of material factors, the material factors are quite important in the path of yoga because the path of yoga doesn’t primarily relay on the grace of the Lord and it doesn’t take shelter of transcendental Bhakti, it focuses on material readjustments, redirections, of the bodily energies so therefore at a material level adjusting things at the time of death becomes important, Krishna has said earlier that one who remembers me will come back to me but for those who do not focus on those devotional injunctions on just remember Me for them they have to do other things what are those other things we will discuss in the next verse

End of transcription.